R.W. SMITH

But the physicality of theater and
how you use your shape and use your

movements really Opened up my mind to the
instrument you use when you're on stage

and how it can affect you, you know,
in fact, the audience, I should say.

Welcome to pure theater
podcast number two.

I'm Rodney Rogers and you were just
listening from a little snippet

from today's conversation with R.

W.

Smith.

Better known around here is Smitty.

Smitty's an actor, writer, director.

He's kind of done it all.

He's also been a core member, one of the
original four of PURE's core ensemble

that was founded close to 20 years ago
by our fearless leader, Sharon Gracie.

That group includes Sharon Gracie, myself,
David Mandel, and of course, Smitty.

That ensemble has now grown to
almost 25 members, most of which

we hope to have on the show.

Up next at the theater, starting
January 11th, is the Lehman Trilogy.

Be sure to check out the
dates on the website.

It's an extraordinary show.

And that cast includes
the aforementioned R.

W.

Smith and David Mandel, and
is rounded out by long term

core member Michael Smallwood.

We'll get the entire cast together as
the show approaches to talk about the

show and also get some behind the scenes
look at the making of the Lehman Trilogy.

For today, here's an interview I did
with Smitty about two months ago.

I've known Smitty for years, but
it's always surprising when you sit

down with someone you think you know,
there's always something new to learn.

I hope you enjoy the
conversation as much as I did.

I did.

I did.

I grew up, I actually grew up on campus
in Clemson, my, what I can remember, I

actually spent the first four years of my
life in Texas on an air force base, but

I don't really remember a lot of that.

And then when I was four,
my parents moved to Clemson.

And so I grew up in married housing.

And so I, I was, and actually this
connects back to theater, but I grew

up in married housing on the Clemson
campus and where we lived was right

up next to the building where my
parents would take a lot of classes.

And so I grew up like they would be
interning at different places on campus

and they'd have to bring their kid along.

And so I sat in on college classes when
I was five and just, you know, and this

is pre phone or video games, you know,
so I had a piece of paper and a pen and

just would draw while my mom was learning
about nutrition or my dad was learning

about plants and his agronomy degree.

And then we moved to Conway near Myrtle
beach and I, the first time I ever

did theater was in high school, Conway
high school, my senior year, they did,

uh, what do you call a 12 angry men.

But, uh, my, I mean, this is 1988 and
she was progressive, I guess, for the

time, cause she made it 12 angry jurors.

She was going to cast women in it.

And I, I got the lead in that.

And then she asked me to
do glass menagerie next.

And so I did that.

And so I kind of got the bug.

But then I went to college
and I auditioned for a play

and I didn't get into it.

And I was a snotty little
kid full of myself.

And I'm like, well, I'm done with this.

So you, that was it for you.

And it was, shall we say Clemson, you
were all the way full circle back.

I was back at Clemson and I was a Clemson
players and I auditioned for a play,

didn't get a call back or anything.

And I was just full of myself.

And.

And that full, full of myself
also led itself to not being

a very good academic student.

So I failed out of Clemson
after two years, ironically,

the same thing my dad did.

And after I failed out, I went into
the air force, which my dad did.

And then after he got out, he
went back to Clemson to finish

degree, which I did as well.

So that stubbornness last lasted a while.

So like when you said, I'm not doing this.

So I grew up in these houses on
Clemson's campus called Prefabs and

it was these square metal buildings
and like I said, I looked out onto

what was called the P& A building.

So when I went back to school in
97 to finish my, I took an intro

to theater class and I go to where
they had built a new theater called

the Brooks Theater at Clemson.

And.

I go to the building and it's literally
sitting where my house was when I grew up.

I walk into my intro to theater class
and the view out of the window was

the view out of my bedroom growing up.

And I've been doing theater ever since.

That is insane.

I never knew that.

Oh, if you come to Clemson
with me, I always take people

over there and tell this story.

And that's, and like, so.

Did you feel like at that moment,
like stars aligned, like in other

words, that really much told you,
okay, yeah, okay, yeah, it really did.

How did you feel about the
stubbornness at the time?

Like, did you feel the air force
got rid of that for me as they do?

Yeah.

Yeah.

The air force got rid of that.

And I'd actually, and I enjoyed the air
force and it was something I needed.

I needed to grow up.

Yeah.

And I lived, you know, I lived in
Columbus, Mississippi the whole

time, but I was an air traffic
controller and loved my job.

But, and I almost thought about doing it
when I got out, but they had, there's a

whole thing that they had hired a bunch
of them and there's no job openings.

So I actually took a job overseas so
I could make some tax free money and

save money to come back to college.

And so I moved to Clemson from the
Marshall Islands on the equator

down North of New Zealand, directly
to Clemson to go back to school.

What was that like?

Which one?

The Marshall Islands.

It was amazing.

I was on an Island that was three
miles long by one mile wide and the

sun rose and set on the Pacific ocean.

Yeah, it was, it was pretty
amazing place to spend a year,

but it's only like 150 people on
the whole Island and it gets old.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, it was gorgeous.

It was amazing.

And actually we've had
armed, armed forces radio.

I actually, I did
college radio at Clemson.

I did college radio in Mississippi
at a college near where our base was.

And I did armed forces radio
while I was out there too.

So I was still getting, you know,
this connection to some kind

of performance, if you will.

Well, also inquiry, like trying
to, trying to find out about things

that, that sounds fascinating.

So you get back to Clemson.

What was the first show, do you remember?

27 Wagons Full of Cotton,
Tennessee Williams show.

And I went and auditioned and I was,
I got the role and it just clicked.

Now I will say when I just read
the sides, I walked in and I

had not, I didn't have training.

I hadn't done theater in forever.

And I just read the sides and
basically I ripped off Kiefer

Sutherland in A Few Good Men.

I had just watched that movie
and it just felt like that.

So I just ripped it off and did an
impression of him saying these lines.

And they were just blown away cause
they were just college kids, but I

made it, but I made a choice and I went
in with a choice and I learned later.

That's what I did basically.

But I got that part.

And then I started getting a lot
of roles there while I was at

Clemson and fell in love with it.

Um, now I didn't go to get theater though.

I was going to finish my wild,
my wildlife biology degree.

And.

I did an internship in Charleston in
1998 at Fort Johnson, spent a summer

working with Clemson university was
doing studies with black sea bass

and flounder and, and red drum.

And so I was just working with that.

And I realized these people make no money.

It's so theater, if I'm not going
to make any money, I had fallen

back in love with theater again.

And I'm like, I'm going to go do this.

I'm going to go do it.

And now I had the drive and the passion.

And I also had this support because I'd
gotten back together with my now wife.

We had broken up, excuse me,
while I was in the air force.

And so we got back together
and so she was all in with me.

And so I was like, I need to get training.

And so that's when I started
auditioning for grad schools and

ended up going to LSU, other tigers.

Yeah, exactly.

But death Valley to the death Valley.

But another thing is though, you know,
I made amazing friends in the air

force and when I went back to Clemson
and this theater group, some of the

best friends I've ever made was there.

Then I go to LSU, same
thing, just great people.

Um, Got to work with amazing companies.

You got to work.

I, you know, I, we were talking earlier.

I did death of a salesman when I was 33.

I got to play Biff Loman, but it's
working with a city group out of New York.

And I'm doing viewpoints
version of death of a salesman.

This show really literally begins with
50 salesmen on stage, going through

the motions of selling products.

And then they all collapse.

And there's one standing
there, this concept of tonight.

You get to Hill.

You get to hear Willie's story.

But if you came tomorrow night,
you'd hear John or Nancy or whatever.

That's fascinating.

Yeah.

Process wise, that's such an
interesting, I mean, that's.

It's an interesting that
viewpoints to be introduced.

How did it change where you
had been up until that moment?

So, you know, very much, you know,
as I got to grad school, it was

still just, you know, my, my, my
early acting classes, they definitely

went into your basic breaking down
beats Stanislavski bass, but then it

got really in depth more with that.

Um, In my grad school with
John Dennis, one of the best

acting teachers I've ever had.

One of those guys you just always
wanted to please, you know, you know,

um, and then, but then this was just
such a different take on it because it

was also combined with Suzuki, which
is more physical and far East and,

and that Japanese training on top of
viewpoints, which is dance oriented.

It comes off of dance, but it's
really about the body and how it.

Is a piece of the art on stage
that I had never, that was not

an instrument I'd used a lot.

And when I say, and many people think,
you know, singing, acting, dancing,

but the physicality of theater and
how you use your shape and use your

movements really opened up my mind to.

The instrument you use when you're
on stage and how it can affect

you, you know, affect the audience.

I should say.

Hmm.

And that's, and that really
became a part of your process.

Oh, huge part.

I remember when we did Vanya, Sonya,
Masha spike, I remember getting a great

compliment from joy Vanderhoek Cobb
when she, she was just like, I, I watch

your body mold into that right before.

And I'm like, yeah, that's, and
I'm, you know, and compulsion is

going to have a lot of that too.

I'm very excited about.

It's an interesting thing because
you were talking about before about.

I think a bad name is giving to
mimicry, like, especially when it

comes to actors, because really
mimicry is a physical sense.

You're basically taking on something
and then you're reprocessing physically.

And like, you're talking about keepers
up when you're giving us keeper, you

know, you're giving us that, but it
really is, the difference is just

knowing what you're doing as far
as like those, those processes go.

And I think that's what
viewpoints really does.

And really the big difference between
theater and film, because it's like.

Theater is alive in the body.

Whereas film is just your eyes.

You have to see the thoughts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anthony Hopkins talked about, he says
like, I always stole from people.

Yeah.

I love, there's a great little video
going around and it's Dave Grohl

was being interviewed by Pharrell.

He's interesting.

Oh, he is so interesting.

And he's talking about, Dave Grohl was
talking about how the Nirvana beats and

like literally smells like teen spirit.

That beginning drum is disco.

Yeah.

He's like, I totally ripped off this one
specific drummer and it's the gap band.

He ripped off the gap and you hear it
and it's like, that's the gap band.

I hear it.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

And that is, that's totally it.

It's, it's, and it's not,
I don't believe it's.

I don't believe it's stealing.

I think it's inspiration.

Yeah, it is inspiration.

It's like, Oh, this person has
done something and it's not a,

I'm a cover band acting like them.

I'm taking that inspiration and
making it my own, my version of it.

It's filling the sales.

I mean, and too, it's like, I
mean, I think it really is not

repurposing, but it's like, it's
what we all are doing anyway.

And when you think about actors and
like what really comes from actors.

Is the interpretation in a way, and it
comes from somewhere, but you are writing,

you know, you're a writer as well.

So it's like, it's not that far off.

It's just when you're acting and
you're writing, nobody ever sees that.

Yeah.

That's kind of the work you're
doing kind of in your head.

Right.

Yeah.

I'm literally, I'm, I'm in the
process of writing what I consider

a sci fi theater piece because I
don't think you've ever seen that.

That's awesome.

And I'm like, Am I stealing
Blade Runner right now?

I'm like, I'm trying to, I'm
not, yeah, I'm trying not to,

you know, those inspirations of
sci fi and I'm like, ah, yeah.

So, well, it's always such a
great question of like, too.

Sometimes I think you start out with it.

Would it, Austin Cleon says, good
artists create great art steel.

I mean, it's, you're just, you just look
at it enough to go, okay, what's the take,

what kind of takes it into the next thing.

But I was talking to Sharon the other day.

I think genre theater is gonna happen.

I think that's gonna be a thing coming up.

So that's like, I think you're right
on the right on the cusp of that.

How did that, how did that come to you?

How did that like, idea?

It's something I've just been
toying with my head for years of

how could you do And I'm not saying,
I mean, I'm not, I mean, there's

different types of science fiction.

You could go from alien to severance
severance is science fiction.

It's set in an office, but
that's science fiction.

Oh, it's, oh, it's, oh, I can't
wait for season two, but yeah.

And so where.

Yeah, I guess it's so that mind was kind
of that idea was percolating in there.

And then I went to go pick up my
daughter from New York and I'm stuck

in a hotel in a crappy hotel in Queens
that looked much better in the picture.

And she was supposed to spend time with
me and she spent time with her friends

that night and I'm stuck in this hotel
and I was like, I'm gonna do some writing.

And so I just, I dove into that.

And, um, and then I found out like
a little brewery around there,

which I really liked and did some
more writing when I was over there.

So, and just so that kind of sparked
it and I keep going back to it.

I keep doing shows though.

When I get into a show, I, I have to stop,
I can't, I can't spread myself that thin.

Well, you are, I mean, you were, I'm like
the, it's that one thing at a time almost.

Yeah.

So a number.

So I have, I have a great kind of, how
much you, a number is the Churchill.

Yeah.

What's her first name?

Carol.

Carol Churchill play.

And that really is kind of
grounded science fiction.

Oh, yeah.

Is it, is it more like that or is it?

Because Blade Runner at
the time was grounded.

Now it feels a little less.

No, it's very grounded.

It's very much going into AI
and realistic human beings.

But then how those are manipulated.

And inserting memories into it.

And then how real that looks.

And affects.

But then you can pull it out.

Also, how can you place those
memories into something and then

it becomes sort of a surrogate for
something you've lost in the past.

Yeah.

AI, man.

Yeah.

That's fascinating.

Yeah.

A number of which we directed here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How many shows have you done up here?

Do you know offhand?

I don't.

I want to say it's, I'm going
to say close to 40 acting.

That's just acting.

That's not the writing and directing.

I've written.

Four, technically, if you
count the shorts and directed

at least that many, five, six.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a, that's a body
of work right there.

Yeah.

No, it's great.

I mean, it's great.

I, I, I go through it with a lot of
pride, you know, looking at those

old shows, you know, starting with.

Jesus hopped the atrium.

I'll never forget being in that
small office right off the back of

the theater and auditioning for you.

And that, you know,
talk about inspiration.

You know, I get to this town,
we move here from Chicago.

So after grad school, like
you got to go to a major city.

So we went to Chicago, but we were, I
mean, I'm a starving artist up there.

My wife is working.

We have a baby daycare is a one
stop up on the L and we got to walk

back with the baby in the winter.

And I'm like, No, no, no, no, I'm not
going to, I'm not, if I'd have done

this at 20 without a kid, you know,
yeah, I would do this, but I'm coming

at this at a later time in my life.

So that's when we decided
to move to Charleston.

And you know, part of me was like, well,
am I even going to get to do this anymore?

And I'd done a little research
and I, I mean, we were going to

come to South Carolina and I just
knew Charleston at least had more

theaters than Greenville, Columbia.

And I get here and I'm reading
the newspaper and there's these

two kids doing mercy seat.

And I'm looking at what you
guys had done that year.

And I'm like, This is, this is a
common mind, I think, I think that

they're looking at the right stuff.

So yeah, so then I, I, you know, luckily
you'd put something out, I guess, looking

for people to audition to kind of build
a, I think somebody gave us your name.

Is it?

I think that, I think
that's correct though.

That might've been one of the rare
times in the beginning, we actually

kind of, I didn't know anybody.

Yeah.

It's hard to remember that
far back, but yeah, it's like.

Yeah, and it's, it's, it's, you know,
you start to think about all the

work that's come through the theater.

It's extraordinary.

And we've raised children
through the theater.

We have children that are as
old or younger than the theater.

And it's kind of fascinating, but it's
like, we had, yeah, I wanted to count.

Cause I'd say it's gotta
be a tremendous number.

So I audition and then you
didn't have anything available.

And then you, uh, someone dropped
out of Jesus hopped the A train and

you call me up and I started on a
Wednesday and we opened the next week.

Not much has changed.

And so now, and then we're in the
middle of the run and I don't know if

the next show got canceled or what.

And I suggested to Sharon, I
said, how about David Mandel

came on at the exact same time.

So we joined you at the same time.

And I said, how about
we do true West next?

And David and I will
switch roles every night.

And she said, okay, it was kind
of a, once again, stealing from

Philip Seymour Hoffman, John C.

Riley, who had done that
at True West and New York.

And she said, yeah.

And you, you, you had me at
Jesus hopped the A train.

I was all in when you,
you agreed to do that.

I'm like, this is my clan.

This is my group.

You look back at like how small
the theater was, everything.

It would be awesome to like go back in
time and see what those shows look like.

Right.

Yeah.

It would be fascinating.

Which was wonderful.

We got to redo True West.

Oh yeah.

Because, and we didn't switch the roles.

We could just stuck in the one
role and it just, it, the first

time was, it was rock and roll.

It was a garage band.

Right.

The second time that was, that was poetry.

That was art.

You know, I mean, they both were
art, but it was just, it was

so much more grounded and real.

Wow.

It's like you said too, it's
like letting something percolate.

You know, and how they do it
in, in Europe, like what's in

Bulgaria when they'll do the show.

They were doing the
same show for 20 years.

And if you think about as long as bringing
that show back is an advance, and I think

for both the shows we brought back, both
for Beauty, Queen of Lebanon and True

West, it's like having that time to kind
of go through of it and let it grow.

It just becomes even more,
which is a fascinating process.

Just like we are, we, I mean, so yeah,
it's literally capitalizing on that.

Our growth as humans and
our experience as actors.

Well, and seeing where it fits in
character, you know, when we did the Edwin

Booth, Edwin Booth played Hamlet from the
time he was 18 to the time he was dying

in the sixties, it was like the last
thing, I think it's the last thing he did.

Can you imagine a 60 year old Hamlet?

Yeah.

Well, I mean, that's when
it mattered the last.

Like, yeah, I still have time now
you're talking about switching roles.

Yeah.

Which is always kind of a fascinating
part and that leads us into compulsion,

which is the next show that's coming up.

Right.

Known as compulsion or the house.

Behind by Rennie Groff, you're doing
some different characters in that.

Yeah.

And what's awesome about this is, first
of all, I don't get to do a lot multi

characters, but very often, which is
actually, I mean, because I'm usually

playing some major roles, but this
is while it's multiple characters,

they all are just meaty and deep.

And, and so there's not.

Usually, you know, I remember back in
the day and early on, and you'd get,

yeah, I get to play four different
people, but three of them are just

standing in the background and
they got the one line of, uh huh.

Yeah, that was great.

Yeah.

So these are all meaty and very different
and yet similar at the same time.

And because of the stylized
version of what we're doing here,

it's going back to viewpoints.

I'm getting to bring a
lot of viewpoints into it.

And I mean, working with.

You know, two of my favorite people to
work on stage with, with David Mandel,

Camille Lohman, you know, and of course,
Sharon directing who someone, you know,

I, I just feel safe in that first off as
an actor, it's not my job to direct ever.

And there's some people who feel
worried too big about themes

and all that kind of stuff.

And I'm like, as actors, I'm like, I.

No, that's not my job, you know?

And I think pure, we do a great job of
when it's my turn to direct, we put that

hat on when it's my turn to act, I'm gonna
put that hat on and I trust your vision.

I think doing both
really teaches you that.

No, I don't want to do that.

You do that, which I have done a couple
of times with stuff I wrote, but yeah, no.

So they're really fleshed out and really,
uh, they are driving the plot so much.

And it's a very exciting, and
I get to once again, the, the.

Accents.

You know, we, we do these plays constantly
with accents and, and I love that

challenge, but it is a challenge for me.

There's some people who are
just so good at finding accents.

It's hard for me.

And once again, usually if I can find
a person, I can just rip them off.

Right.

And, um, but this is an Israeli
accent and I've never done that.

And so that one's, I'm like,
I'm really trying to find that.

And just cause you also want to be
respectful to the piece and to the people.

So getting that down has been part
of probably the biggest struggle, but

it is a, it is a beautiful script.

And I think, you know, I think part of
it is puppetry, you know, cause it is

about Anne Frank and it's about, you
know, the publication of her diary, the

publication of then play performances.

And then it gets into the kind of that.

The muddiness of who owns material, you
know, and this was based on real things

that happened and a real man named Meyer
Levin, although his name has changed.

And it's not specifically
his story by any means.

It's just taking his, that
incident and exploring it.

And so just finding the respect there,
but then having also this amazing Anne

Frank is the overlying thing of all of it.

And she shows up there as a puppet.

And I mean, talk about a dog is
always going to outact you on stage.

And a puppet's going to out act
you on stage, you know, somebody

was just talking about the lack
of pie on Broadway right now.

Yeah.

But there's so much, and you know, in
all the themes we're talking about,

it's like the ability to play different
people on stage is so much more kind

of honored than I think it is on film
where you're just kind of, you can't

just jump into those other parts.

And I think that, you know, that's,
you're talking about the viewpoints.

You're talking about being
able to kind of move.

It's just all the same themes seem kind
of wrapped up in this one play kind of the

things we talked about for sure, for sure.

And yeah, that is it finding the
physicality of each one has sort of

been almost my starting place, you
know, you know, and of course there's

still all the script breakdown you do
and, and trying to find all the actual.

There's a lot of actual factual stuff
you can take from that time period and

just to, but it always goes back to
just simply honoring the words that

this playwright has put out there and
trusting the vision that your director's

like, this is where we're headed.

So that changes the, the, like I said,
I, I always have used viewpoints in

ways, but now I really get to go deep
into the vocabulary of it because

we are going with stylized movement.

Right.

So that really kind of expands
what was maybe broad brush.

are now fine detailed brush strokes as
well, and really expanding the color

palette of the movement on stage.

Do you find your outside in, you know,
and when I'm, when I'm, for the, for

those listening and outside in actors
somebody takes something from the

outside and then drills it back in.

Whereas an inside actor generally
picks something on the internal

and then it finds its way out.

You need both.

Absolutely.

That's like what makes it, but I
think some people are more prone.

So they'll see a gesture.

They'll see a movement.

They'll see, they'll see something
physical that takes them inside versus

somebody who takes it from the inside.

And it's sometimes harder to get out.

That's why there was a
better film actors sometimes.

I would say four of the characters are
outside in and one of them is inside out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

As you were saying that I'm like, I
realizing, yeah, there's three in the

first act that are definitely outside in
and the last guy, but the middle there's

a, the Israeli actor has been inside out.

Interesting.

Yeah.

That has definitely been.

And I didn't, I didn't consciously,
I just realized that's what I did

while I'm thinking back on it.

Cause I don't necessarily
consciously do it.

I think it's just, I read the
script and I attack it in my

own way each time the way it.

Yeah, I think that it's like, it's,
they're always different, right?

I mean, it's like, there's
never, it never is.

You've never seen me be able
to go about it the same way.

This last one we just did
that I was in hangman.

That one was one that was very inside out.

I just found that guy inside
of me real quick and, and loved

exploring what that was in such
a kind of Martin McDonough, cool.

You know, as he does and what's, it's
kind of hanging and it's like dark

comedy, which is my, I love that.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Beautiful.

One of the best, I mean his,
his dialogue, Martin McDonough's

dialogue, you know, luckily I've
seen it was my third beauty queen.

Behanding.

Behanding.

Yeah.

And now, yeah.

Yeah.

May he write many, many more.

Please.

What a great conversation with R.

W.

Smith.

Look for him coming up in the Lehman
Trilogy, which will be running

starting January 11th for five weeks.

Also look for a link in the show
notes or check us out at puretheater.

org.

Thanks so much for joining this week.

Be sure to like, subscribe, hit your
favorite, whatever you do these days.

We'll be back next week with a
conversation with Shivan Patel.

Have a great week and keep it pure.