RICHARD HEFFNER
RICHARD HEFFNER: My goal has always
been to convince people that the set
design, the stage design is another
character and it's not just, um, you
know, what you stand in front of,
um, and that's been an uphill climb.
Rodney Lee Rogers: And that's
Richard Heppner, our kind of Mr.
Everything.
He does scenic design, set
design, lighting design, a
little bit of everything, and
the resident technical director.
So whenever we want to know how
to do something, we go to Richard.
He's also more than a little bit of
an authority on Charleston theater.
I caught up with him, this is
actually a few months back, talked
a lot about many different things.
Hope you enjoy the conversation.
Nine years?
Did you start it?
I don't know.
I was trying to, I was
trying to do the math.
RICHARD HEFFNER: Um, what were we, 23?
Rodney Lee Rogers: Oh yeah.
Yeah, so nine years.
Nearly ten.
So, yeah, boy how the time flies.
Um, but an incredible part
of certainly our company and
Charleston Theatre in general.
You know, going back a ways.
We were talking in the car
just as we get over there.
As these things happen, sometimes
you have great conversations in
the car before you even get here.
But you said you came
here to be in a band.
So if you go back, when you came
here, where'd you come from?
And can you tell me
that story a little bit?
RICHARD HEFFNER: Um, I'm
originally from West Virginia.
North Central West Virginia,
so almost not West Virginia.
Um, and a friend of mine
from college had moved here.
And they were part of the Foursome
who, uh, started proven sports and,
um, at this, by this point, you know,
out of that singing in a band recruited
me to come down and play in a band.
So I came down to do that.
That's how I discovered the place.
And oddly enough, the first place
she took me, the day I drove in
was to the Dock Street theater.
Interesting.
Rodney Lee Rogers: And what was your
theater background up until then?
College.
College, which you'd done in college.
RICHARD HEFFNER: Um, which was not,
um, I'm an English literature major.
Right.
Not a theater major.
Um, but I did do a lot of
shows, a lot of work there.
Right.
Rodney Lee Rogers: So you get here,
you're in the band, how's that go?
Um,
RICHARD HEFFNER: I learned a lot of things
about Charleston from my musician friends.
Um, Some philosophies
that are still with me.
Yeah, and that went for a while until They
just they wanted to be a road band, right?
They didn't like being on the road So
they came back to Charleston and then
they started thinking we don't need
all these people in this band Were
you one of those all those people?
Well, I was last hired.
Oh So I was looking for things to do so we
Mess around with the music biz for a while
and then that's just kind of faded out
you get you I ended up in a Hotel lounge.
Yeah, as you do.
Yeah, and that's pretty much did music
in for Maybe 15 years after that.
Wow.
What year was this?
82, 81.
Rodney Lee Rogers: What was
Charleston like and what was the
music scene like at that time here?
Charleston
RICHARD HEFFNER: was
very Sleepy Southerntown.
Mm hmm, and it was very Um, it could
be very provincial And there were
Charleston characters everywhere
you looked, the people that you
read about or hear about now.
And they were just fascinating
people because there was nothing
like anybody I'd ever met, you know,
as far, even as North as I was.
Um, and the music scene was very
concentrated where it was concentrated,
but where it wasn't concentrated.
It was just.
Nothing.
Lose.
So there was probably a dozen people who
played in all the bands and once you're
in, you sort of know them all and you
bounce around and from here to there and
play some things and um, but again, it's,
um, very specific to what they're doing.
And I was playing beach music at the time
with, I mean, that was the whole trend.
And, um, most people.
Get the feel of that.
But at the time, beach music was
poised, even through Rolling Stone
magazine, to be the next big thing.
And that got, um,
interrupted with the hip hop.
Right.
Rodney Lee Rogers: Everything else.
And what was your, when it came to music,
like, what was your, what got you going?
Like, what did you like most
RICHARD HEFFNER: about it?
Um, hmm.
It was, it was being in the moment,
really, um, which oddly enough
now relates to what I see people
on stage doing, because it's very
much like acting in that way.
You just, you, when you're playing,
you're You're either completely
in the moment or you're completely
divorced from that moment.
I mean, there were times when I was
playing at the Ramada Inn and the
keyboard player would look over at me
and he'd say, did I play my ride yet?
And I'd say, I don't know.
And he'd go, I'll just do it now and he'd
start playing and the singers would look
over and it's like, where are we headed?
Um, but it was very, um, very free form.
Rodney Lee Rogers: That's, I mean,
that's true in theater, like I,
I, you know, when you're in a, in
a run, you can be one night and
you're like, didn't I just say this?
And you're not quite sure
exactly where you are.
Um, so the music ends or stops,
it comes to an abrupt halt.
What then?
RICHARD HEFFNER: Um, I worked for
a few years as a graphic designer,
typesetter for a small printing company.
Interesting.
Um, and I got pretty old.
Um, cause it was really my first stint
at a job, job, and I tried really hard.
I wore Oxford shirts and things
like that, but, um, the place I
worked was really fascinating.
A lot of good stories there.
Um, and that just went for a while until
we had a, we had a, uh, Uh, pressman
who would quit every three months
or so, and then there would be a big
argument and then he'd get hired back.
And they would do that.
It was just regular.
It was a cycle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And one day I just said, yeah,
that's, that's enough of that for me.
Yeah.
So, um, I got out of that and I
had been still oddly nocturnal
from playing music for so long.
Right.
So I was looking for something to do.
And I ran across a place in the phone book
called the prop box, which intrigued me.
And it was run by Norman Weber and, uh,
two people and his friend, Louis Bowen.
And I said, I called him up and
said, let's do something together.
So he just started utilizing
me as a third hand to, to build
and paint and things like that.
And I remember delivering things to.
Yeah.
And walking around down in there without
really being aware of where I was,
what I was doing until much later.
Um, so I had made that kind of a
contact and that came back around,
uh, Norman was working on a film
and they were looking for props.
So he called me and asked me
to, um, do a couple of things.
So I got doing that, that particular film.
Never got off the ground.
Right.
Um, but then that led me to a couple
of small film projects to do things.
And, um,
and I'm trying to think
where I went from there.
Yeah.
Oh, Norman had, um, part of, he
was the head prop guy and he had
borrowed some things from Footlight.
Right.
So he was returning them and they
said they were looking for somebody.
So he said, um, we'll call this guy.
And at that point, I'd never
designed or built a show.
I'd always worked in some capacity.
But now it's like,
Rodney Lee Rogers: oof.
So did you go on then as a designer?
Yeah.
Excellent.
Yeah.
And what was that like?
Like, what was Footlight
like at that time?
RICHARD HEFFNER: Footlight was what
I've always called an unusually
sophisticated community theater.
Um, they had, there was a lot of holes in
what was, What they were doing, but they
had a long history of doing it, right?
So that made up for a number of things.
How
Rodney Lee Rogers: long had they been
in the space like this was this was
it is over on Queen Street, right?
Yeah.
RICHARD HEFFNER: Yeah, and they
had bought that warehouse in 1942.
Oh, wow.
They started the company in 1931, right?
And they ran through a whole Affiliation
with Carolina Art Association the Art
Association at Dock Street in and out and
all that and then they bought the other
space They were operating concurrently.
Okay.
And then there was a big
split with the board.
Anyway, so they moved into their
warehouse space, permanently,
somewhere in the mid, late
Rodney Lee Rogers: 40s.
And so, so they've been going a while.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And what was the first show?
Do you remember the first show you did?
That I did?
RICHARD HEFFNER: Yeah.
The first show that I
did was Never Too Late.
A pretty typical farce.
Not a classic farce, but a comedy.
It might even be Alan
Akburn, I'm not sure.
Rodney Lee Rogers: And when
you, so, how do you approach it?
Like, so, you just read
the script and go, okay.
RICHARD HEFFNER: Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I did.
Uh, a lot of, a lot of the footlight
scripts were, um, Samuel French type
scripts and they all would have a
description, a description, typically
a, a scene plot at the back from like
their, um, first production of the show.
Right.
So I would modify from that and they
had, they're building, it's almost
a city block and A third of that,
at least, if not more, was shop and
warehouse, and it was just full of Wow.
At that time, probably 60
years worth of productions.
So I just got pieces out and
started assembling and put 'em
Rodney Lee Rogers: together.
Yeah.
Um, did you love it at first?
Like, did you love designing
or did Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
RICHARD HEFFNER: Yeah.
I haven't worked a day of my life since.
So you felt
Rodney Lee Rogers: like that?
Yeah.
87.
You found it?
Yeah.
Um.
Oh, that period, like if you go back,
um, what are the ones you remember?
Is there any?
The shows?
Yeah.
Oh, that's
RICHARD HEFFNER: sudden.
Rodney Lee Rogers: Well, no, that,
I mean, you really loved, like,
yeah, that you really felt clicked.
RICHARD HEFFNER: We did a production
of Tidtypes, it was written, um,
Mel Marvin, and I think, um, um,
Pat Robinson Music and lyric.
He wrote the music and I remember that
show because that was one of the First
shows that I recall being a whole right
that everything was connected and tied
together We did we had projections we
carousel slides But we had projections.
I'm built some oleo
drops that came in Yeah.
Rolled in and rolled back out.
I built them upside down though.
That was my trick.
So they rolled up instead of, um, so
anyway, that's one that comes to mind.
Um, another one comes to mind
was when we, I think it's white
Christmas we did, which is like all
these locations, why do we do this?
And I built a 12 foot cube on a.
central pivot and each one of
the faces of the cube opened
up to reveal a scene inside.
Mm hmm.
And um, that I thought
was, I like that show.
Rodney Lee Rogers: Yeah.
You probably, I could, like I can't even
count how many shows you've done with us.
You, you, can you imagine
over the years how
RICHARD HEFFNER: many shows?
Um What is this?
Do you keep a tick anywhere?
Rodney Lee Rogers: I did
RICHARD HEFFNER: for a while.
I did for a while.
I've got, I've got books of slides.
Yeah.
Um, I sort of stopped doing that
because after I left Footlight, I
sort of, I got away from the place
where you could just take a picture of
your set and say that's how it looks.
Because a lot of what we do isn't, It
doesn't work that way right the this
scenery changes it shifts it, you know,
it's it's not one thing so, you know, I
kept up with it for a while and then I
sort of just Stopped thinking about it.
Yeah, but um It's 300 shows maybe Wow.
Yeah
Rodney Lee Rogers: something
like that we met and We met,
we didn't really know we met.
I met you when we came in through with
the Charlotte Shakespeare Company.
It would have been sometime in the 80s.
Right.
I want to say it was 88.
I know it was late 80s.
Yeah, it was pre Hugo.
Yeah.
Because, because of all that, I think.
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.
But, uh, I remember coming to
the Footlight the first time.
I was, it was, I'd been in and out of
Charleston a lot, but like That was
one of the times I really fell in love
with this place because it was like the
theater was here and it was kind of great.
Um, that was during Piccolo Splato.
Piccolo Splato.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, and then many years later again,
when I, when I came back and we did
a show together, we did, uh, Amadeus.
Right.
But we knew each other before then.
Right.
Um, I'm trying to remember
the exact moment, but I can't.
It, it blurs.
Yeah, it totally does.
In between the two.
Um, but had a lot of fun doing that show.
Um, and then fast forward a
little bit more when you started
to come to work for Pure.
Um, do you remember how
that kind of came about?
RICHARD HEFFNER: Well,
I had left Footlight.
Um, and I was just kind of
content to not be doing anything.
And then we ruined.
And I was running into, I would go see
shows and I would, at different theater
companies and I was getting phone calls.
Yeah.
Like, what do you, what's happening?
You look, you need something to do.
Um, and so I got a phone call from pure
and, um, that really appealed to me
because it's a different, it's a different
facet of Charleston theater community.
I think the approach and
the work really different.
Rodney Lee Rogers: What
was the first show?
Do you remember?
RICHARD HEFFNER: The first show I can.
Remember was, um, other desert cities.
Yeah, I wasn't part of that bill.
I was right towards the end moving.
Yeah So I can't remember
the first Production.
I'd have to look at this list of seasons.
What was
Rodney Lee Rogers: yeah But like
amazing work like I'm always
amazed at what you come up with
RICHARD HEFFNER: well my goal has
always been to Convince people that
the set design, the stage design is
another character and it's not just um,
you know, what you stand in front of.
Um, and that's been an uphill
climb because, um, Oh, most
people don't see it that way.
Um, they just need, especially at foot,
like the drinks table needs to be here.
It needs to be here.
The seltzer bottle needs
Rodney Lee Rogers: to be over here.
Well, if you start with those same,
a franchise, exactly what it is.
It's like a, it's like a
floor plan first before.
RICHARD HEFFNER: Yeah.
And something I always wanted to
do, because I would always set up my
camera, take a set shot from center
of the house, just because it was
representative of what it would look like.
And I always wanted to do this.
And in those days, it didn't
have the technology now.
Um, would have the technology with, um,
um, what's with the computer, whatever,
but what I always wanted to do was just
overlay the sets and then just run a
little film of the furniture moving around
on stage, basically, you know, fireplaces
over here and now it's over here.
Yeah.
Here's the big orange sofa.
And now the big orange sofa is over here.
And, um, I've never really done that.
I've always sort of wanted to just to see
Rodney Lee Rogers: what
it would look like.
Well, you do models.
Cause like, I mean, your
models are, are crazy.
Like I always, that's another thing.
I love those little models that designers
do, because I think they do give you
such a, I have a problem as a director
with, uh, time and space, um, which I
probably got from a good friend, Peter
Karapetkov, cause he's got this wild
imagination, but sometimes things won't.
Um, they don't act like that in,
in reality, but it would be the,
the models always seem to kind of
give you that sense of what it is.
I
RICHARD HEFFNER: use that because I'm
not really good at drawing renderings.
Um, that's not something again, most of my
career, I haven't done a lot of paperwork
in theater, but a lot of people do because
I never had anybody to hand it off to.
Right.
So I just skipped the step of doing
Rodney Lee Rogers: the paperwork.
RICHARD HEFFNER: Yeah.
So the models for me is.
It's, it's a little more time consuming,
but I think it's a better representation.
Rodney Lee Rogers: Well, it feels
more like, you know, and I know
from, from, from our experiences,
I can't, I don't know how many
times we've worked together a ton.
Um, but it's like, it's really great
when that kind of comes out of the group
or it kind of comes out of an idea and
you still have the room to change it.
Right.
Um, and I certainly know.
As a director, that's a beauty of
having somebody, a designer really knows
what they're doing and really knows a
story because oftentimes it, it, you
know, like you're saying before, it
can go with ways where designers like,
this is what it's going to look like.
Well,
RICHARD HEFFNER: and I think that for
me, I, I attribute that to my English
literature background because I'm, I like
to think I'm a little more involved with
the narrative than some designers are.
Right.
Rodney Lee Rogers: It's, it's
funny when I went over to Bulgaria.
That's exactly how they do it.
Like when they, when they did, um,
uh, the tragedy and over there,
they came over here for a couple
months and they studied the show.
We talked about the show and the designer
was there from the very beginning
of the process, which we do at Puro.
That's very much how we,
you know, we strive to be.
It's just for us, it'd be awesome if we
had the amount of time that they have.
That's always, yeah, yeah.
It's always a time, but it's like,
it's amazing how it just really helps.
And I know you and Sharon
worked that way as well.
Um, of that period, like I, I, for,
for me, it was outside Mullingar, which
where we started to create the, you
know, the grass fields and everything
that was, that was kind of a real joy.
Um, is there any shows, I definitely
want to talk about compulsion, but
like before we get to compulsion,
which is the latest show we did and
actually closed the 20th season.
So we're in the 20th year.
So we're excited about there, but
what, um, is there any that pop out?
Working that way?
RICHARD HEFFNER: I should have
anticipated that question, but I didn't.
Um Give me a minute.
We'll
Rodney Lee Rogers: come back.
We'll roll it back around.
We'll just move that right
into, um, Compulsion, because
I like being behind the scenes.
What I mean, again, every production is a
different type of controlled train wreck.
Sometimes not even controlled.
But that one in particular What came
out of it in the end was so stellar,
which was so unique, and so purposeful.
But I know, in the beginning,
there was a little trouble.
It was,
RICHARD HEFFNER: it was a difficult birth.
Right.
Um, it's a, it's not an easy script.
Mm mm, at all.
And, what I've said to some
people is, it's just not a show
that's, it's not for everybody.
Mm.
Um, and so trying to Condense it
into a design was really challenging
and I did something that I rarely do
which was to look up some Clips and
trailers and things like that how
other people have done Yeah, and I try
really hard not to do that because it
it steers you in directions, right?
but what this one did was
it made me Think now what?
because there were Um, their design
was so, um, large and kind of
sprawling and, um, so I had to, I
was trying to come kind of back away
from that and, uh, it was not easy.
And by, at this point we're in rehearsals.
And so in my head, what's going on
over there is you've got a pot on the
stove and you're, you're trying to fix
another part of your dinner over here.
Yeah.
That pots.
It's coming to a boil and you got
to figure out, you know, how do I
connect this thing to that thing?
Because it's already in progress.
Rodney Lee Rogers: Well Sharon's
so brilliant with movement.
And I know that, I'm talking about
Sharon Gracie, the artistic director,
was also the director of Compulsion.
I forget, sometimes
everybody doesn't know that.
But yeah, and it's such an important
part, I think, of all of our productions.
Yeah.
It's such a unique part.
Did that come in?
Like, as you were starting to
RICHARD HEFFNER: Um, it did.
And like you say, it's, it's such
an important part and it's, um,
paradoxically, it's a thing that
many directors just don't think about
because they're so involved in the words
and they forget about the movement.
And it's almost as if they are forgetting
that people are watching what's going on
stage at the same time they're hearing it.
And a lot of directors
just don't think that way.
Um, and so this, it factored in
really heavily and it, um, it
solved a lot of the issues about the
locations, the varying locations.
It created issues, um, as well,
but it, once we reached that point,
it, things began to untangle.
And, and.
Rodney Lee Rogers: When, when the
design came and if we describe the,
the, the front of the stage, so on top
of the stage was this, um, platform.
What was it?
It's 12 by 12, uh, square,
but the diagonal went straight
down the center of the theater.
Up and down stage.
On a rake, which it appeared to be
very unsettling, because it almost
seems like it was going to slide
right into the audience, which I
remember you talked about the other
day was part of the, the feel of it.
Right.
Yeah.
And, um, and I love to
tell you, you called it the
RICHARD HEFFNER: Triscuit, which
I to Well, we nicknamed it the
Triscuit before it was painted.
Rodney Lee Rogers: When that
came, did that come first or
did like the, the background?
I think
RICHARD HEFFNER: that, that was first.
Yeah.
Yeah, because that was, for me, central.
Right.
To the, to the action.
This was an interesting show because it's
very, um, Symmetrical and center line.
Right.
Oriented.
Which I sort of tend to try to avoid
because That can, that can be really
static, but I think it, this, the,
the static nature of it factored into
this, um, the script, I think it was,
um, I think it was appropriate for it.
Rodney Lee Rogers: Yeah.
And then the, then you had the columns in
the background that kind of went over that
had pieces, they were giant pieces of.
, um, the text of Ann Frank, right.
Um,
RICHARD HEFFNER: diary and, uh, the
diary news reports and other things.
How, how, how did that come?
Um, that was just a lot of,
um, mostly, um, research,
looking at examples of things.
Mm-Hmm.
and it, um, we, early on, um,
in early production meetings had
talked about, um, paper and, um.
, the props being built out of paper.
Mm-Hmm.
or, you know, all these suggestions
and brainstorming because the, you
know, the play is about the, the
guy who wants to write the play.
Mm-Hmm.
About Anne Frank.
And his subject is based
on her diary and, Mm-Hmm.
the writings, the writing.
What he wanted to do is based on his
writings and it was all about paper and
writing and publishing and all that.
So that's, Mm-Hmm.
That's where a lot of that came from.
Plus with the, the, uh.
World War II German Nazi thing.
They wrote everything down.
Yeah.
And so more paper.
Yeah.
It's just paper everywhere you looked.
It had a
Rodney Lee Rogers: real, it was both,
you felt the weight, but you also, it
felt everything was kind of constrained.
And then you, in between these
pillars were empty space.
Right.
Um, which, um, was lit, you know,
for different scenes, like the
subway, those kind of things.
Did that.
Which came first?
Did the design come first,
then the idea of how to use
it, or was it always part of?
RICHARD HEFFNER: I think design
first, then use, but very narrowly.
Rodney Lee Rogers: Right on its heel.
Yeah, very close.
Because it really did feel like, when it
came together, it was, again, it's that
collaboration, it's that, it just clicked.
Yeah.
RICHARD HEFFNER: You need a
few factors that will trigger.
Other things.
So, and sometimes it's the use
that triggers the construction.
And sometimes it's the other way around.
Once you start to see things, whether it's
in the model or on the stage or whatever.
Sometimes when you see those things, the
physicality of it, that will trigger the
Rodney Lee Rogers: use.
Right.
And it just was, like I
said, it was, it was awesome.
Any other thoughts about
that show in retrospect?
Um.
RICHARD HEFFNER: Not really.
Yeah.
Um, I was, I was pleased with it.
I liked the, um, the
marionettes and the footlights.
Rodney Lee Rogers: Yeah.
Um, and the
RICHARD HEFFNER: footlight for the scenes.
Yeah.
Um, and it all, I think it all
just played really well together.
Rodney Lee Rogers: Yeah.
It's such a beautiful show.
It really, um, you know, it was
such a great, uh, cap to that 20th.
It's, it's a
RICHARD HEFFNER: difficult show,
but once you begin to find your
way through it, it really does it.
Yeah.
Have those moments.
How are you
Rodney Lee Rogers:
feeling about next year?
Tired.
It's always this time of year, right?
Yep.
We'll all take a little
break and see how it goes.
But yeah.
RICHARD HEFFNER: Yeah.
I talked to somebody at the reception
who, who was saying, let's just
really, I've really enjoyed it.
And he said, I thought
compulsion, what a title.
What is it?
And he said, by the second act, I'm
going, of course, you know, and it's
one of those things, once again, It's
like I was saying about the scenery
being a part of the character, a lot
of people forget that people who write
things don't just write stuff down.
It's connected.
It's related in a way.
It all comes out.
It's organic and it has to be a
Rodney Lee Rogers: piece.
That's when it really
works I think for me.
So um, one last question.
If we go back, you talked about
the music part, like the, the
kind of the, the nugget of the
kernel was that live feeling.
How does that relate
to what you create now?
Do you have, is there some kind of
RICHARD HEFFNER: If it relates
at all, it's vicarious.
Because by, at least by Thursday, pay
what you will, you know, I'm done.
There's not much else
I can really Do mm hmm.
It's like anybody else and
director or any other designer.
You just say well, it's
their show now Right.
Oh, so it is that it doesn't
have the live Immediate thing
of doing your own performance.
Yeah, it's a little
separate from it that way.
Do you miss that at all?
I do.
Yeah Enough to keep trying to do it again.
Rodney Lee Rogers:
Yeah, but still playing.
RICHARD HEFFNER: Yeah Keep trying but
yeah, it's been at least 35 years.
Yeah, and I Opened my guitar
has been under the bed.
It was like Dracula's coffin Because it
was under there for a long long time.
Yeah, but Like acting it's it engages
a part of your brain that you you
don't Always engage right and you
just need to keep doing that And
Rodney Lee Rogers: that was Richard
Hefner We're out on tour right now
in South Carolina with Septima.
Just had a great weekend in Beaufort.
Be sure to check it
out at a city near you.
Until next week, keep it pure.